Industrial Era Discussion Question 2
Industrialization brought great wealth to some and absolute poverty to many. How did having a background of financial stability help artists in your era to create great works of art? Was financial security necessary in order to be an artist? Explain.
In my opinion, financial stability is not necessary in becoming an artist. For me, my greatest asset was that my family was made up of many respected artists. My family was thoroughly middle class until my father retired at an early age because of his failing eye sight. At this point, my family dropped into mild poverty, and it was actually then that my poems became more well known as I established myself as an artist, hoping to use my talent to keep our family financially stable. So, in my case, not having financial stability actually encouraged me to move forwards more as an artist. So of course, that would lead me to feel that having financial stability would not be necessary to create great works of art.
ReplyDeleteI must say I can relate to what you are saying, Ms. Rossetti. However, I will say that financial stability is very helpful. Having financial stability helps you afford artistic expenses like buying and caring for an instrument, buying supplies for your newest painting, going on tours, etc. Just like if you were starting a new business, you kind of need some money in order to start out as an artist. I mean, you can't exactly paint a picture very well without paint. Also, wealthy folks often already have a rather large reputation so it's easier for the world to discover them and their work. I will say there's always the exception but for the most part, you have to have at least some money.
ReplyDeleteI see what you are saying Amy Beach, but I must disagree. Yes, having some money may be helpful, but it is far from necessary. If you are an instrumentalist, having the financial stability to buy an instrument may be helpful, and if you are an artist the money to buy paper and paint may be helpful etcetera. However, these materials are not necessary to become successful, as long as the talent is there. In order to be successful in the arts you first must be noticed by someone who is already successful. You do not need to be financially stable to be noticed. You just need to know how to get the word out that you are talented, or at if you have no experience that you are interested, so that news of your artistic abilities or eagerness to learn spread, and than you are able to be noticed by someone who is able to lead you to success. After this, you will become financially stable, and therefore able to purchase the materials that you need. So, it is not necessary to start off with financial stability in order to become a successful artist.
DeleteI agree with Ms. Rossetti. Financial stability in not necessary to become an artist. I can see where you are getting at Ms. Beach, that it is helpful. But look at me, I have turned out to be both a legendary composer and clarinetist. I suppose though if I was not the most well paid individual in the Royal Court Orchestra, I wouldn't have been able to afford materials to compose my music...anyway I'm sure if I was still poor (as I was born into a family of poor bookbinders) I would have still been as successful. Talent is all you need to become a great artist.
ReplyDeleteI certainly respect your opinion, Mr. Crusell, but I can't help but disagree with that last statement of yours. Talent is not all you need to succeed as an artist. It's only logical to think that you'd need money to be successful as an artist. How would you pay for the paper to write your compositions on or properly care for your clarinet without at least some money? Now, you don't necessarily have to obtain that money from your family fortune. You could be given money to create art by a patron of some sort. You don't have to start out rich to be successful. But, you really do need some source of money to be successful. Whiether you obtain that money from someone else or already have it in your possession is a different story.
ReplyDeleteI see what you are saying Ms. Beach. You're right I do need money to care properly for my clarinet and to buy music. I suppose if I was poor it would be more of a struggle.
DeleteI sort of agree with Ms. Rossetti but only on some levels. Money is not entirely necessary to becoming a successful artist but it does play a key role. I grew up in an extremely poor house hold being that my parent’s only income was the pedaling business. While my parents had their own income so did my sister Sara and I. Together we sang in the cafés to earn money and it was there that I was discovered as an artist which began my success. Therefore the discovery of my success helped me to peruse my art at a further level which is an action that involved no money at all. But on the other hand although we had little money my father spent every cent he had saved to pay me into the business. This enabled me to now become financially stable and once I was in the business at the Comedie Francaise I demanded extremely high wedges that were well deserved. In the end I did put my company in bankruptcy but before that my high salary helped me to have a successful career. For example my money helped me to have more experiences at the Comedie Francaise and because the company knew I was now wealthy from their money they made sure to cast me in the lead roles. This is also because I was what brought the company paying audience members which caused them to flourish before I bankrupted them. So in conclusion I was able to contribute my best work because of money.
ReplyDeleteThat was a good point, Ms. Felix. If you don't have any money of your own, you at least need to be discovered by people who do have it. That goes into what I said earlier about having a patron. Plus, you need to be discovered by people in general. You can't very well become successful if no one knows who you are. What is unfortunate is that, because of the fact that during the Industrial Revolution there was lots of economic hardship for the majority of people, many talented individuals were probably denied the opportunity to become well-known artists because of the fact that they didn't have the money to back themselves up or were not discovered by the people who would loan them money to get their career started.
ReplyDeleteRachel Felix and Amy Beach both make a good point, in order to be successful in the arts, you at least need to be discovered by someone with money to help start you on your path to fame. For me, having a family with a history of being successful in the arts certainly helped me. My particular generation was on the very lower end of the lower middle class once my father retired early, so financial stability did not play a role in my success as a poet. What I'm getting at here is that, while you may need to encounter someone with money in order to reach success as an artist, having good assets, and having financial stability are not the same.
ReplyDeleteI'll agree that having good assets and financial stability are not the same, Ms. Rossetti. However, they both lead to financial stability. One, obviously, already is finacial stability. Being discovered by people who do have money leads to your eventual financial stability (at least, if you have enough talent to become a successful artist). But good point. You are, indeed, very right in saying they are not the same thing.
ReplyDeleteIf you are a successful artist, than obviously you become financially stable. The question here is whether or not you need financial stability in order to start out as a successful artist. I think that the answer to this question must be no, because there are many successful artists that started out being very poor. If you needed financial stability to start out as a successful artist, than there would be no debate about his issue, because we would all have started out as financially stable. I know that when I first became a well known and respected poet of my time, I was far from financially stable, but I worked my way up quickly. It sounds as though Rachel Felix did not grow up with a rich family, but she is very successful. My point is that there are countless examples to prove anyone who believes that financial stability is necessary to become a successful artist wrong.
ReplyDeleteAlright, you have a point. I suppose I can agree that you don't necessarily have to start out with financial stability to be successful. However, as I said earlier, you at least need to know someone or be discoverd by someone who has money and is willing to give it to you so you can afford the costs of getting started. I will say there's always the exception, but most of the time this is the case.
ReplyDeleteThank you Amy Beach and Christina Rossetti for agreeing with me on some levels. Talent is what makes you a star but what is a star without any resources? Let’s be realistic, we live in a time where money can buy almost everything because there are so many people who need money so desperately. While money cannot buy you fame, money can buy you opportunity. Without money I never would have been able to begin my career. This is because as I worked my way up to become a key role at the Comedie Francaise. Part of the reason the company held on to me for so long was because I was bringing them money. This gave both my company and I a large chance at many bigger opportunities. You see, money plays a key role in any art. How do other people experience and patronize your art? They pay a great deal of money in order to buy and support it. In the end this money goes to the artist in order to live and how can you have a successful career when you have no money to live on? The answer is you can’t.
ReplyDeleteMs. Feliz, I agree whole-heartedly with you. Couldn't have said that better myself.
ReplyDeleteFor me, I never really had any trouble with money. You see, I was sent around a lot and had people take care of me and they were all very helpful with my career. Considering I started my career at such an early age that also helped keep me out of poverty. Although I did end my career early I did not spend much on the unnecessary items that I did not need.
ReplyDeleteAll well spoken! I do have to bring up a question though. Is it merely talent that makes for a great artist? Does skill (which comes with its own economic costs) play any part in making brilliant art? I guess my feeling is that before your talents were realized, someone gave you the resources necessary (be it money, time, training) to nurture your talent. That cost had economic value. Had that not happened, would you have become the artists you are?
ReplyDeleteAnother thought: Who decides what is good art and what is bad art? Do we love classical music because it is essential to hear or because it is what was supported and nurtured to become something we find aesthetically pleasing?
Ms. Andreadis, for me, since my parents did not really care for me I really did not get training until someone heard me and I was sent to the Opera house. There began my training and thats how I became a beautiful opera singer. As for who desides what is bad art and what is good art I would have to say the audience and also who puts you on stage. I mean obviously you are not going to be allowed on stage if you are a horrid singer. I do not think anyone would allow it.
ReplyDeleteMs. Andreadis, just like Ms. Lind here, my parents did not want me to pursue a career in music. It was not till a good family friend of ours realized my talent and got me training. Now who decides what is good art and what is bad art, I agree with Ms. Lind. The audience would be the deciding factor. If I am paying good money to hear you perform, I want to hear some good stuff!
ReplyDeleteI do not think I would've become a successful musician at all had it not been for the fact that my parents bought a piano. That piano filled me with awe everyone time my mother plucked it's keys. Finally, she taught me to play. Had my mother not taken the time to teach me how to play the piano and had my parents not even bought a piano, I don't think I would've gone into the artistic industry. I wouldn't have had enough exposure to music to become interested enough to make it a career.
ReplyDeleteAs for your other question, Ms. Andreadis, I have to agree with the others: the audience is who decides what is good art and what isn't. If it is aesthetically pleasing to many people, it's good art. In my opinion though, if you can cater to a wide variety of audiences, that is one thing that truly makes you a successful artist.
Hello Everyone! Seems I've joined this a little late. But I'd like to have my say in the vert first question. Having a backround in finacial stability, is needed but not nesscary. I agree with all of you on some points except for Ms.Rossetti. But I completely angree with Ms.Beach and in some ways Ms.Felix. Now I have come from a family that's very well known and celebrated in my art, of music. Like Ms.Rossetti. Which helps a lot because it's a lot easier to get you known. Also people know people. But we had money, and lots of it, unlike Ms.Rossetti, But the money did not give me my beautiful voice which is what creates my musical works of art. Having finacial stability does insure vocal lessons to push me further. To better train what I was already born with.
ReplyDeleteNow when it comes to having finacial security, I do believe it's necessary. Because as an opera singer, I traveled so much. Back and forth, and had marriage setbacks, as well as everyday costs. You need your talent to be a great artist. But as well you need finacial security to maintain it, and know all your expensives are handled. Notice that some of you might've started out poor, like Mr.Crussell, but you didn't stay poor. So bleary it's necessary.
And Ms.Andreadis in few arts it is merely talent that you need to become a great artist. But it is merely strong natural born talent, passion, and skill! Because you can have a beautiful talent, like I when it comes to singing. But it took skill and passion fr me to become brilliant and great. Skill such as my father Manuel Garcia training me along with friends of his. And thy wasn't before my talents were realized, that was after my talents were realized, loved and appreciated, and they saw with training my voice would be jaw dropping. Now had them not training me not happened, because of my family influence and natural talent, I'd still be the artist I am. But i will admit I wouldnt be as recognized and celebrated as I am, because my voice would not be at it's full potential.
And for you second question, I have to agree with everyone else m. That your audience decides a great artist or not. But I have to add. You must know you'd great. So it's a combination of the audience and yourself as an artist.
Thank you, Ms. Malibran. I'm glad you agree with me. I find your words very inspiring.
ReplyDeleteThank you very much. As do I find yours!
ReplyDeleteI agree Ms. Malibran, security is quite necessary. Without all my expenses paid for, I wouldn't have been able to travel as much as I did. I will admit though, some things were just handed to me. For example my first clarinet, it was given to me. No cost.
ReplyDeleteHaving a background of great financial stability indeed helps quite a bit. You have something to fall back on if you do not see success in your art career. Although it does majorly help I do not see it as neccessary.
ReplyDeleteBut is having something to fall back on more important than being happy doing what you love? Personally I believe happiness is key to any part of natural success. If you go to your fall back job you are more likely to be unhappy and less successful because you have to motivation or pride in your work due to a lack of passion. My theory is good work comes from your mind but great work comes from your heart. People work harder at things that they care about because they have faith in their work. Pride and passion comes from hard work. Gratitude comes from hard passionate work. Having a fall back career may be useful but it is not as necessary due to a lack of motivation and happiness
DeleteHonestly, When I was little I didn't think about money. My mother had to take up two jobs to get extra money. I guess we did go into poverty, but now I have money to live off of, and I am getting great opportunities to travel the world and dancing for a lot of different audiences. In dance, we don't get paid much, but I get by.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you as well Mr.Crusell. But I was wondering why you Lady of Distiction, don't see it as necessary. Now I am a firm believer in natural passionate talent. So what is truly necessary is the talent! The drive, the support sometimes and the skill and passion. Willing to learn as well! But everyone I think needs to understand we do not live in a free world. Especially in our era I'd have yo say! Therefore everything thats obviously not connected with you personality wise has a cost! The fact that all of us are extremely talented and have strong careers, Especially me! We've all needed money at some point for our careers it plays a huge role. Maybe for some arts more than others. But for those who sat it's not necessary think of what your career wouldve been like without it.
ReplyDelete